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	<title>Comments on: Deviance in Gaming</title>
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	<link>http://www.onyxraven.com/2007/06/15/deviance-in-gaming/</link>
	<description>Random Crap?  You bet!</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 12:02:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: OnyxRaven</title>
		<link>http://www.onyxraven.com/2007/06/15/deviance-in-gaming/comment-page-1/#comment-2617</link>
		<dc:creator>OnyxRaven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jun 2007 01:32:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onyxraven.com/2007/06/15/deviance-in-gaming/#comment-2617</guid>
		<description>BTW I am going to freaking kill the WordPress post editor - every time I try to insert proper line spacing it puts it right back the way it was.  ARG!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW I am going to freaking kill the WordPress post editor - every time I try to insert proper line spacing it puts it right back the way it was.  ARG!</p>
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		<title>By: OnyxRaven</title>
		<link>http://www.onyxraven.com/2007/06/15/deviance-in-gaming/comment-page-1/#comment-2616</link>
		<dc:creator>OnyxRaven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jun 2007 01:25:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onyxraven.com/2007/06/15/deviance-in-gaming/#comment-2616</guid>
		<description>I appreciate the comment regardless the length :-).

I was trying to follow the stricter definitions of each of the groups - that is whether they believe in and strive for the known 'accepted' goals in a game, by using the known 'accepted' methods to get there.   

The emergent behaviors/games that I described (sans the raids) don't really follow either of those - they're completely outside the game and its goals, but people still enjoy it.  You're right, raids probably do end up under Innovators - that is, breaking the 'accepted' methods to achieve the goals. The markets you speak of also definitely fit there.  

But what about in-game weddings, or even Machinima within games that really have nothing to do with the game or its goals?  These really do belong in the 'rebel camp' I think.

I don't think that any one player really stays in one mode of adaptation.  I used the word 'player' a bit too specifically maybe - there are actions or behaviors that each player participates in that can be under one of the modes, but as a whole, the player may 'generally' be another one.  

Like most categorizations, I think a lot of it is up to a bit of interpretation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciate the comment regardless the length :-).</p>
<p>I was trying to follow the stricter definitions of each of the groups - that is whether they believe in and strive for the known &#8216;accepted&#8217; goals in a game, by using the known &#8216;accepted&#8217; methods to get there.   </p>
<p>The emergent behaviors/games that I described (sans the raids) don&#8217;t really follow either of those - they&#8217;re completely outside the game and its goals, but people still enjoy it.  You&#8217;re right, raids probably do end up under Innovators - that is, breaking the &#8216;accepted&#8217; methods to achieve the goals. The markets you speak of also definitely fit there.  </p>
<p>But what about in-game weddings, or even Machinima within games that really have nothing to do with the game or its goals?  These really do belong in the &#8216;rebel camp&#8217; I think.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that any one player really stays in one mode of adaptation.  I used the word &#8216;player&#8217; a bit too specifically maybe - there are actions or behaviors that each player participates in that can be under one of the modes, but as a whole, the player may &#8216;generally&#8217; be another one.  </p>
<p>Like most categorizations, I think a lot of it is up to a bit of interpretation.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.onyxraven.com/2007/06/15/deviance-in-gaming/comment-page-1/#comment-2615</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jun 2007 01:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onyxraven.com/2007/06/15/deviance-in-gaming/#comment-2615</guid>
		<description>The "rebel behaviors" that developers like can probably be more accurately said to fall under Innovators. Actions in the Innovator category are sometimes beneficial.  For example, players in the original Everquest developed trading centers in unexpected areas to connect distant markets.

I would expect people who reject both traditional structures and traditional goals to be much less common in gameworlds than in reality.  In reality, rebels are more tightly bound to the setting they dislike. It's a hell of a lot more difficult to abandon a nationality than a game.  A dissatisfied subscriber has made an monetary investment which encourages him or her to stay a little longer, in case satisfaction will finally present itself and justify the expense. But in gaming, as opposed to real life, it seems much more likely a would-be Rebel will eventually just walk away.

By that reasoning, would the true Rebels who remain often be misanthropes? It's one thing to try to change something within reach of your ideals, but not many would remain in a game to drastically and consciously reshape they're gameplay experience.  

The players who are consciously dissatisfied with the game and remain to enjoy it in a productive or harmless way (albeit, one outside of given structures and values) are certainly satisfied by some aspects of the game.  In which case, how well does the Rebel label apply?

I've soloed quite a bit in group-oriented games, like the first EQ, Shadowbane (after the starter isle), and others.  I mostly avoided quests, avoided intended routes of travel, and tackled encounters designed for a combination of classes. In such ways, I was often avoiding both traditional structures and values (like the best loot and best levelling avenues), but I stayed and enjoyed the games by using the game's assets to form an atypical play-experience.  So I suppose I would qualify as a Rebel in those games (though not in other MMOs). In those cases, I rarely affected the game or fellow players in any way, good or bad.  

But when I did affect them, it was probably through being able to tell of unique experiences from off the beaten path...experiences which may inspire others to try and explore new areas of the game. For example: in SWG, I liked to bring creatures back with my Creature Handler which few players would ever see (because they were from out-of-the-way areas, and weren't statistically the best pets).

Sorry for the length.. =/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;rebel behaviors&#8221; that developers like can probably be more accurately said to fall under Innovators. Actions in the Innovator category are sometimes beneficial.  For example, players in the original Everquest developed trading centers in unexpected areas to connect distant markets.</p>
<p>I would expect people who reject both traditional structures and traditional goals to be much less common in gameworlds than in reality.  In reality, rebels are more tightly bound to the setting they dislike. It&#8217;s a hell of a lot more difficult to abandon a nationality than a game.  A dissatisfied subscriber has made an monetary investment which encourages him or her to stay a little longer, in case satisfaction will finally present itself and justify the expense. But in gaming, as opposed to real life, it seems much more likely a would-be Rebel will eventually just walk away.</p>
<p>By that reasoning, would the true Rebels who remain often be misanthropes? It&#8217;s one thing to try to change something within reach of your ideals, but not many would remain in a game to drastically and consciously reshape they&#8217;re gameplay experience.  </p>
<p>The players who are consciously dissatisfied with the game and remain to enjoy it in a productive or harmless way (albeit, one outside of given structures and values) are certainly satisfied by some aspects of the game.  In which case, how well does the Rebel label apply?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve soloed quite a bit in group-oriented games, like the first EQ, Shadowbane (after the starter isle), and others.  I mostly avoided quests, avoided intended routes of travel, and tackled encounters designed for a combination of classes. In such ways, I was often avoiding both traditional structures and values (like the best loot and best levelling avenues), but I stayed and enjoyed the games by using the game&#8217;s assets to form an atypical play-experience.  So I suppose I would qualify as a Rebel in those games (though not in other MMOs). In those cases, I rarely affected the game or fellow players in any way, good or bad.  </p>
<p>But when I did affect them, it was probably through being able to tell of unique experiences from off the beaten path&#8230;experiences which may inspire others to try and explore new areas of the game. For example: in SWG, I liked to bring creatures back with my Creature Handler which few players would ever see (because they were from out-of-the-way areas, and weren&#8217;t statistically the best pets).</p>
<p>Sorry for the length.. =/</p>
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